JESSICA PAYNE “Everyone hopes they’ll be the person who gets agented on their first book, but in reality, it’s rare.”
The next author on Kelly’s Writerly Q&A is Jessica Payne, a thriller writer from the USA who started #MomsWritersClub on Twitter and YouTube, helping connect and inspire writers. She is one of the most determined and welcoming writers you will ever meet, and a professional at balancing work and family with outdoor fun and reading. It is with great honour that I feature my first international debut author, discussing everything from juggling motherhood with writing multiple novels and how she got her agent.
Hi Jessica, thanks for taking the time to answer some writerly questions. First of all, congratulations on the release of your first novel – a twisty psychological thriller! Can you tell me about Make Me Disappear?
I would love to! Make Me Disappear is my debut psychological thriller, out May 16th. It tells the story of a woman on the edge who’s willing to do anything to escape her sociopathic, narcissistic boyfriend, including arranging for her own kidnapping. But when nothing goes as planned, she realizes she’s still within his grasp—effectively, there is no escape. The only way to be free of him is to turn the tables and beat him at his own game of cat and mouse.
A little more detail: This story is about Noelle, a Seattle-based nurse. She’s dating Daniel, a charming, handsome, wealthy doctor who she met through her job. Everyone adores Daniel and thinks he’s just wonderful, but that’s only because they don’t see what happens between closed doors. In reality, he can’t take his eyes off Noelle—he’s watching her via cameras in her apartment, spyware on her phone, and he has threatened to hurt her family and friends if she tries to leave him.
This book is told in dual-POV, so you get Noelle’s perspective as she arranges for her kidnapping, thinks she has escaped, realized she hasn’t, and has a hard choice to make… as well as Daniel’s, which you’ll like if you enjoyed Dexter or Joe Goldberg in YOU. That deliciously awful character you love to hate… and maybe hate to love.
This sounds amazing which is why I’m currently reading and loving! How did you come up with the idea for this story?
I had my character in mind, and I knew she needed to be kidnapped. I wasn’t sure why, or how it was going to happen, though. So I started researching how one might go about arranging for their own kidnapping… and that’s when I discovered an extreme “sport” called “extreme kidnapping”. Yes, it’s real—you can pay someone to kidnap you. You can even pay for “extras” to make it seem more real.
Besides that, I wanted to write a story about a woman who has slowly descended into an unhealthy relationship. In my own personal experiences, I’ve found these types of relationships have a way of sneaking up on you. Kind of like the frog in boiling water analogy. But I wanted this to be a story about strength as she figures out how to escape.
Also, writing Daniel’s point of view was fascinating from a psychological perspective. We have to remember that villains believe they are in the right—how would a person defend his actions and behavior? I had to get inside the head of a sociopathic narcissist and try to understand his way of thinking.
Character is where I like to start too. As a reader, a strong character will always draw me into a story. How long did it take you to write?
This is a hard question to answer!
The short answer: A little over 2 months.
But…
I rewrote the second half, and that took three months. With additional revisions, I probably spent 6-7 months working on this book. So while the rough draft wrote up super fast, I had a lot of revising to do.
I’m impressed with your writing and editing speed! Let’s talk about querying and publishing, how did you get your yes?
Perseverance. Timing. Luck. Working my butt off. Lots of work and research.
Make Me Disappear is the 4th book I’ve written. I queried the first two and received little to no interest from literary agents. That made me stop and think about what I was doing—the genre I was writing in (was there a market for it?), was I writing something original in that genre (hah, no!)? Was my writing good enough? And why was I writing in that genre, anyway?
My first 2 books were contemporary/urban fantasy. At the time, it wasn’t selling well. To make it worse, I was writing the genre the way it was written when I first started reading it—in the early to mid 2000s. This is why it’s so critical for authors to read current books in their genre!
I also realized I wasn’t reading many new books from this genre—mostly older ones I had liked. What I was reading, however, were thrillers. I was mostly listening to audiobooks, actually, because I had recently had a baby and my husband was deployed, leaving me with lots of long hours without another adult around to talk to. I was so impressed with these books, the characters, the way the plots wove and twisted and tricked me. It was intimidating, but I decided to try my hand at writing one.
So, I wrote my 3rd book. I paid attention to the market. I queried smarter. My writing improved.
I got a lot of interest for that book, but still no agent. But that was OK—I was hard at work on another book. A book whose title I already knew was going to be Make Me Disappear.
It took almost 6 months from the time I sent my first query to my first offer of representation. Querying slowed way down during the early days of the pandemic, and even with 12-ish literary agents looking at my full manuscript, it took that long to hear back. But then I got one offer, then another, and ended up with three. After working so hard for so long, it was like living in a dream.
I focused on who I connected with, whose vision I liked for my book, who I thought would help me have the writing career I wanted, and I ultimately signed with Kimberly Brower of Brower Literary. She has been so amazing to work with. She’s dedicated to her clients, a total badass, has a sharp editorial eye, and is always available to help, whether it’s with a plot problem or a question about a contract. I’m so glad I have the opportunity to work with her.
All your hard work has paid off and I’m so happy for you. It sounds like you have come to understand exactly what type of writer you are which I’m sure will result in subsequent success. I also love that you brought up reading current titles in your genre, that’s what I’ve been doing this year and it’s been most beneficial for future comps and inspiration. What are your thoughts on rejection and never giving up?
Rejection is part of the “game” of querying and publishing. I accepted that from day one, before I ever sent out a query, thanks to watching fellow authors who’d been through the querying trenches on YouTube. Alexa Donne has some great videos on it. So I went into querying expecting to be rejected. It does feel personal—I totally get that. But it’s not. Everyone hopes they’ll be the person who gets agented on their first book, but in reality, it’s rare. I averaged how many books and years my author friends took to get their agents, and I’d say on (very non-scientific) average it takes 4+ years and easily 4-6 books for most authors.
Be okay with that.
Be willing to be in it for the long haul.
Sit with that rejection, but only for an hour, or maybe half a day, and then move on.
Write the next book!
Yes, I know, this is the book of your heart, but guess what? I’ve now written SIX books, and every single one has felt like the book of my heart at some point. You will improve as a writer, but only if you write.
Also, don’t be afraid to stop, reassess. Take stock. Is what you’re doing working? If not, why? Do you have critique partners who will help you improve?
I’ve come to realise that a rejection is more of a not now than a no, and if you keep working there’s a yes on the horizon - great advice! As an author who hosts the #MomsWritersClub YouTube channel and Twitter hashtag, inviting all mum writers to connect, what can you share on social media and how that can aid a writer?
My best piece of advice to writers regarding social media—don’t treat it like your personal place to advertise. That’s not what it is. It’s a place to connect with others—to make writing friends, to learn about writing, to find that support that can often be hard to find in person as a writer. Two of my three critique partners I met through Twitter! And I was not a Twitter person when I signed up. Put yourself out there, find a community that feels right to you. #MomsWritersClub is one, #5amwritersclub is another. And there are many more.
Now, is there some benefit in having this community built by the time you get a book deal and have a book coming out? Yes. But it’s not because you’re posting pretty photos or because you have good quips to put on Twitter—it’s because these people are your friends, and they care about you and want to support you. And hopefully, you’ve supported them.
Other than that, I would say choose a platform that seems most appealing to you—and just do it. Do it regularly. I love taking photos, so Instagram was a great place for me to start. Maybe you’re good at writing funny one-liners—maybe try Twitter.
Connecting with other writers and utilising resources like the prompts you provide on Twitter and video’s on YouTube is so useful. I love the writing community on Twitter but Instagram is where I’ve really found my happy place on social media. What does your typical day of writing look like?
Well, I am a mom to a 3 year-old, so my writing really is condensed into a couple writing sessions a day. I wake up at 4:30am, and spend about 2 hours drinking coffee and writing first thing in the morning before anyone else is awake. It was a hard transition to wake up early, but now that I’ve been doing it for a while, it’s my favorite time of the day.
On days my daughter goes to preschool, I get an extra hour or so mid-morning. Now that I have a book coming out, I consider this to kind of be my “office hours”… time when I reply to e-mails, prep anything I need to send out in the mail, prep posts for my launch team, pitch podcasts, create images for promoting my book… any non-writing things. It’s also a time when I take care of tasks for my family, like scheduling doctor’s appointments. These little things can easily creep in on your writing time, especially as a book launch approaches. By setting aside specifically for working on them, I can better protect my writing time, which is key for me.
Mornings my daughter isn’t at preschool, we try to do a fun activity like go to the library or the playground. In between, I get out for a run or go to the gym on days she’s in school.
Afternoons include my daughter’s nap time or “quiet time” now, as she is slowly dropping her nap. This is 90 minutes to two hours where I again am writing or revising a book. I also use this time to record YouTube episodes, do interviews, or anything else writing-related. Once she’s up from her nap, we’re on the move again—heading outside if it’s not raining, visiting with neighbors, making dinner. Evenings are family time, and I’m usually so tired by then I can’t get much done, anyway. I try to reserve an hour before bed to read. Reading is so central to me to writing. Staying on top of my genre is both fun, but I also love seeing what other authors are doing.
This of course does not include the miscellaneous tasks like appointments, laundry, grocery shopping, cleaning, etc.—that’s all worked in in between. But I try to organize my life around protecting my writing time and my family time, so that’s what I focus on when I plan my days.
In some ways all the chaos of motherhood gives you a nice break in between your writing time, allowing you to separate writing, editing, and reading time. What kinds of books do you like to read?
I’m fond of reading an assortment of books! I’d say probably 60% of what I read are thrillers/suspense/mysteries. I just love getting hooked on a character, trying to puzzle out the twists, trying to guess what the ending will be. But I also love book club fiction, an occasional fantasy or sci-fi, and definitely some romance. I also have no problem DNF’ing a book if it’s not working for me. There are SO MANY good books out there, and I’m so busy—I refuse to read something that I’m just not the right reader for. I will say one thing these books I love all have in common are that character is central, well developed, with lots of voice. I also love a quick pace.
I wish I could DNF without any guilt. Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
So much! Bet let me narrow it down to just a few things.
WRITE. Keep writing.
Find your writing community. It might be a solitary endeavour in many ways, but having writing friends and critique partners will take you far.
Persevere. But also, look around you, take stock. What’s working? What’s not? Don’t be afraid to let go of a project that’s not working or switch directions. Take risks in your writing. You may not know how to do something, but you can learn!
Fabulous list! I agree with all three points wholeheartedly. So, what can we expect from you next?
Make Me Disappear is out May 16th, so I’m still buzzing about that. My second book actually got bumped up, so it’s coming in SEPTEMBER. Hah, I can’t believe it will be so soon after my first book, but I’m also excited to have a second book out in the world. It’s tentatively titled TOO CLOSE FOR COMFORT, but I should have a final title and have the book up for pre-order by mid to late May.
A quick blurb:
World champion MMA coach Norah Silverton worked hard to become one of the most dangerous woman in the world. And who can blame her, after she escaped a serial killer at the age of seventeen. It’s a decade later, and when her estranged father dies, she must return to her hometown, facing not only her past, but the knowledge the full story of how she survived said serial killer has been published for all to read. But when she arrives, she soon realizes she’s not there to bury the father whose love she was never worthy of—she's there to face the serial killer she tricked into letting her go so long ago.
Amazing! Congratulations on your second publication date. Having two books coming out in your debut year is an outstanding achievement. Too Close For Comfort sounds like another superb character-strong intriguing read, I’m already visualising another stunning cover. Thank you for sharing this exciting info. And thank you so much for all your insight on writing. It’s been an honour to feature you and get to know you better. I look forward to staying in touch and reading more of your work.
